What's Going On in the World of Voice Today?
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00:00 Introduction and Special Guest Announcement
01:11 Lisa Popiel's Global Voice Research
02:49 Differences in Music Markets: America vs. Europe
03:36 The Reality of a Singing Career
04:55 The Importance of Teaching for Singers
09:21 Opera and Musical Theater in Europe
21:20 Challenges and Opportunities in Musical Theater
30:52 The Growing Market for Cruise Ship Performers
37:14 Accents and Pronunciation in Singing
47:39 The Role of Social Media and PR in a Singing Career
48:56 Exploring the Journey of Famous Singers
50:06 Understanding Record Deals
51:22 Navigating the Music Industry
52:28 The Reality of Pursuing a Music Career
54:23 The Passion and Persistence Required
56:22 Addressing Common Vocal Questions
57:19 Diving Deep into Vibrato Techniques
01:03:56 The Importance of Musical Knowledge
01:16:33 Alternative Music Careers
01:24:54 Final Thoughts and Encouragement
Introduction and Special Guest Announcement
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Philippe: Hello and welcome to The Voice 5. I am your host, Philippe Hall, and today I have a special guest joining me today who is traveling the world, meeting with voice professionals from all kinds of different genres and different nations. doing active research and, and is also a teacher in my intensive program, the big five coordinations of singing.
And I'm really excited to introduce her to you today. We had a conversation about this and I just find it so fascinating. What's going on in the world of voice. So without further ado. I'm going to ask Lisa to join us here. Lisa Popiel, how are you today?
Lisa Popeil: I'm doing great. Thank you.
Philippe: It seems like with all the blessings of technology, there's still some delays, but we are ready to go now.
And thank you for joining me. It's been a pleasure working with you in the big five intensive training. All the singers have been really enjoying your classes.
Lisa Popeil: Wonderful.
Lisa Popiel's Global Voice Research
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Lisa Popeil: Well, I really appreciate the chance to, to share, uh, some of my experiences and my interests regarding what's happening in the world in terms of, uh, um, Singing styles, universities, colleges, schools, private schools, what's going on in terms of opera versus musical theater versus pop versus jazz.
Um, and, and kinds of different kinds of work that, that people are doing and, and where the work is increasing and, and where it's decreasing in the world. I'd like to also chat about some of the differences between the American uh, music, Market and the European market. I'm I'm I'm not an expert in all countries in all things.
I just I've been for 30 years. I've been going international conferences and and have met so many wonderful people who are singers, teachers, a lot of teachers, voice scientists. And I, I grill them, basically, with, with questions about what's going on in their country, what are their interests, where are they at in terms of their science, what they're most interested in, why they're at the conferences.
Um, recently, I spent a month in Europe and, uh, presented in Paris, in, uh, Istanbul and in Athens and also in online. So are there four, four, uh, conferences in a month there that I participated in and had a chance to, you know, to find out what, what people are into and what opportunities or not are available.
Uh, in their countries.
Differences in Music Markets: America vs. Europe
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Lisa Popeil: Um, I don't know if you wanted to start with any questions or if you'd just like me to, to dig into some of the more interesting points. I'm, I'm assuming that our, our listeners are, um, more of the, uh, popular music types and that a lot of our listeners will be singers versus teachers, but I'm, I'm, I always think when you're a singer, uh, It's not steady work.
It's hardly ever steady work. And, and you can't, you know, you may not be hireable at 60 or 70. And if you don't want to retire, you're going to be teaching. I mean, that just seems like the obvious next step or other way to make a living. While you're a professional singer waiting for your next gig.
The Reality of a Singing Career
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Lisa Popeil: Uh, and so learning about teaching, uh, learning how to serve the interests and needs of, of, uh, amateur singers or beginners or even children, anybody, uh, who is willing to pay to, Learn from your ability and your expertise Uh is is valuable for people who say i'm never going to teach Never say never when somebody wants to give you some money Because they they really like the way you sing and they heard you in a club and they go Could you show me some stuff the answer should be yes But you want to know You
Philippe: know the
Lisa Popeil: best way to do that.
Philippe: That's that's perfect. I i've heard that from a very famous singer also I was working with at an opera house, a big opera house in Germany, and he just had a really big voice. And one of the things he said is, you know, you're just, we're lucky people. If anybody wants to pay to hear you just say thank you and give them your very best.
And the same thing with teaching is passing on knowledge. I mean, I was definitely one of those young artists who said, I'm not going to teach. I'm, I'm, that's not my focus now. I want to perform around the world. And I worked hard and I did that and yes, it is up and down. It is always inconsistent.
The Importance of Teaching for Singers
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Philippe: So, you need to use that time in between to improve your skill set and become more competitive.
And also, uh, I made the decision to teach and share my experience and everything I do now is pretty much dedicated to helping the next generation of singers. But that was the decision I made also because of, uh, family traveling around the world. I also have the feeling, you know, you need to, you need to be at home a little bit more.
Otherwise someone else is going to raise your kids. And you might be on television traveling around the world and you know, big star, but hey, you know, your kids, your kids might need you. And that's a personal choice and I've done that and I'm really happy about the training I got. So those are very wise words.
I love hearing about all the places you go and meet other people. It's something that I'm very, uh, passionate about myself. Uh, one of my dream, you know, dream scenarios for life is, is exactly that. Just travel around the world to different cultures, different places. Talk about the voice, share my knowledge with them and learn from them.
And all this discovery. So it's very fascinating. There are a lot of singers out there that may be considering a university education. A lot of people that want to teach in the future that might be considering a university education versus, or another educational path. And there are a lot of people, including my, myself during my career that not really aware of all of the updates and the research and new things going on.
And now I really try and do my best to stay updated all the time But it is a full time job to do that. So it's going to be a fascinating conversation. Yeah, um, I Share your thoughts with us like you You've been to all these places what and I like that. Um, the the comparison or the the awareness of There are things, different things going on in different markets and there's much more, um, here in America, everything, you know, the classical singing training, we have some great classical singing training, some wonderful programs.
But the enrollment's really going down compared to contemporary singing styles and the universities don't seem to be keeping up on that demand. So they're losing enrollment. And I think that's, that is an important thing, an important shift that I would, I, in my opinion, Academia in the United States and universities needs to needs to either make that shift or shift or that jump to appeal to the singers that want to sing their new styles.
Um, otherwise they're going to lose their programs.
Lisa Popeil: It's, it's sad, but it, and the main reason for this is that the, the U. S. government does not support Opera in, in the U. S. Uh, it's not funded like it is, uh, so, so generously in, in countries like Germany and, and Austria, uh, in Italy. I believe in Italy. I'm, I, I shouldn't say that for sure, but I would think that's, you know, it's probably a UNESCO heritage activity.
So I would think it's, it's, it's supported. Now, um, opera is supported primarily privately in the U. S. Um, by wealthy. Wealthy donors, but it keeps it elite. It keeps it from the general public. So the general public is not They've never heard it. They, seats are very expensive for the most part. Um, opera, smaller opera companies close.
Um, I did a little search on this and found out that internationally, even though it's very hard to estimate how many people are, are actually, can actually be considered professional, that, uh, professional opera singers, it's estimated that compared to all the other, you know, professional singers, Singers who are making money.
It's less than 5%. And that's not just in the U. S. It's it's internationally, which is a very small amount to be paying top dollar to go to one of the many, uh, well regarded conservatories, which she put. Focus on opera, uh, when there's, there's no work or you have to move, and I'm not sure, this is something I wanted to ask you.
Opera and Musical Theater in Europe
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Lisa Popeil: It used used to be that if you wanted to work in opera, you had to move to Germany. And, uh, I don't know if, if it's as easy now to do that as it used to, especially with these conservatories pumping out really talented, skilled singers. Yeah. What's going, what's your input onto that about what's going on with Americans moving to Germany or Austria to sing opera?
Philippe: Well, I can share my personal experience. I mean, personally, I actually went to Germany to do, because, uh, somebody knew somebody that needed a tap dancing tenor for an operetta, and that's a rare skill set in, even in Germany, anywhere, but even in Germany, and they hired me for a summer, so I went for the summer and I did a couple of pieces, and I Kind of ignorant to the amazing opportunities for work in Europe.
And then I discovered that, Oh my gosh, there, there are a lot of big musicals there in Europe and I, at this time I was mainly interested in doing musicals. So I just. Went to an audition and I got hired and I met people and I kept getting hired for really, really good work. So I stayed there and later the passion inside me, um, awakened for opera and I decided to study and get a master's degree in voice performance opera at a conservatory in Germany.
And, um, people that knew me because I, I had established myself as fairly well known, um, As a musical singer all across Germany, they didn't want to give me, uh, a chance to sing opera. So I changed my stage name and went and auditioned under another name at theaters that didn't know me and then they hired me.
For their opera work. So it's very, it's very fascinating, but I describe it like this. It used to be, you know, we have that song. If you can make it there, you make it anywhere in New York, New York. Well, in the opera world, it's Germany. If you can make it in Germany, you can make it anywhere because the entire world is going there because they have such great programs.
And like you said, funding, they, they have, what's called a which means that every city is responsible to. to provide culture, cultural education to their citizens. And part of the taxes go to fund the cultural education for the citizens. So that's actually their job as the city theater or the state theater.
It's not to make a profit, which is very different to America. And they're always struggling with, Hey, how do we make a profit and provide culture? Because they're sometimes, not always, but sometimes they can be at ends. So this, this piece is not going to make any money, but it's culturally important. So there's a lot more funding for that.
And because of that, you have the entire world. You have United States, South America, Russians, the really the Asians, Australians, Africans, the entire world and all of Europe is going there to compete. So it is stiff competition. Um, and the great thing is they do hold auditions. Uh, I know that a lot of the, the theater directors in, from around the world will go attend a couple auditions a year in New York, Where you can audition for basically all the directors of the theaters, not all, but many, and a lot of talent gets taken from there.
And that would be an excellent way for somebody that wanted to go to Europe to start. Another thing is you can go and audition for the conservatory programs as a non German citizen. And if a professor likes you, then you get, you can study there. And that's how a lot of the Koreans and Chinese and, and, and other nationalities Come into German that are not EU nationalities come into Germany study and from there They have some pretty great programs and educational opportunities.
So you you can also just move there and audition so it's possible, but the safest ways to do it are Audition first and go with a job and they have a lot of programs For example, one of the theaters I worked at had a set program with a university program You Um, a couple of universities in Australia and so they would take young artists as, uh, on an apprenticeship contract for a year and give them experience.
It was a, it's a great way for the theater in Germany to save some money and a great opportunity for the students to come. They had to audition, of course, and many of them stayed and continued on in under an employment contract. So it's, it's a fascinating system, but there. There are 80 professional theaters that are funded, well funded.
Um, they're of course varying in sizes. You have the big state theaters have an enormous budget and that's where all the big stars are. And in Austria, very well funded, same thing in Switzerland, just fewer theaters and across Europe, you have amazing theaters in Belgium and France and Italy, of course, and people
Lisa Popeil: show up, right?
I mean, people actually, you know, they can build
Philippe: the
Lisa Popeil: seats. Yeah.
Philippe: They, um, not everything's sold out, but, uh, it depends. They, they have their. They're seasonal ticket holders and they're very well visited and it depends like in Italy It's just such a part of culture and in Germany, you know, it's it's the home of Mozart and Wagner.
Well, you know some of the Austrians might argue with some of the nationalities but Bach and Beethoven and just all these amazing composers And the truth is that Berlin used to be the New York and the Paris, you know, before the world wars happened, it was the, the, the place where every artist and composer and creator wanted to go.
It was like, well, LA and New York today. So you have all this fascinating history there and, um, it's well appreciated. Absolutely. People are proud of their city's theater. Any, any theater that thinks anything of itself has a nice opera house and they don't just, they have an opera ensemble. They have a full time employed orchestra.
They have the technical crew. They have the costume department, the makeup department, the set building department, the dance. Uh, it's the, the full time choir, so employment wise, wonderful opportunities, and it has to be funded, you know, the budget of a small theater. It well exceeds the, of a city theater, well exceeds by two or three times the budget of entire state, usually in the United States and all of the U S state budgets shared between all of the art, artistic venues.
So they're able to do more, but it's difficult. They're still trying to, you know, they want to keep it going. Some theaters and smaller places have shut down. It's not as popular as it used to be. So they've integrated musicals and orchestral concerts. They're doing their best to bring in some commercial things that bring more money and that they make more money on the musicals.
And I did a lot of musicals there. And then they do on the opera because those are like opera costs money. It's funded, but it costs money. You don't make money on opera performances. You make money on the extra concerts. You make money on the musicals. You make money. On, on those kinds of things. So it's a, it's difficult, but it's there and the support for it is, is wonderful.
And that's why there's also an incredible amount of competition from the entire world going there.
Lisa Popeil: Oh, I'm still glad to know that there's an option, that there is still an option for, for American opera singers. Oh yeah. One thing I've noticed in my, my travels talking to people is how much they, they look to the U.
S. for the best, the brightest, the most innovative. They, they, You know, we think everybody hates us, and I'm sure there's a lot. That's not untrue. But, uh, in, in the artistic community or the, the educational community, uh, being an American teacher has weight. They, and science, they, they, you know, they want to know what we think.
So a lot of the, these up and coming countries, like I'll be next year in, in Kazakhstan and, uh, Azerbaijan and. back to Romania for a couple of new cities and Bulgaria. They look to us for what's what they should aspire to. So they're using us, uh, on, as particularly for commercial music as the role model, and also for science and, and medicine.
Um, I'm very involved with the voice medicine, the union of European phoniatricians. I always present for them. They're very open. The science and the medical people in Europe are very open to, to trying things and spending time with, with people. people like me who says, I have an idea. Let's look at this a little more open.
I would say are more interested than in the U. S. Where voice doctors are more compartment compartmentalized. Maybe I haven't said that word before compartmentalized. You know, they focus on surgery or they focus on sinuses, but they don't think in terms of the big picture. I have a famous, uh, uh, Los Angeles laryngologist I'm working with now, who's doing singing lessons with me.
And he's really interested in music like, and, and that's, I'll get back to that sort of the requirements. If anyone wants to consider being a teacher at some point in their lives, or even open to that, things to know. So I'll come, come back to that. Uh, so, um, there's. There it's still even the commercial world of voice.
It's still pretty hit or miss. It's often not A meritocracy. It's still, there's a lot of luck involved in getting a job, keeping a job. Uh, some of the things that used to be able to make money like in the seventies were jingles doing commercials. They don't. have much of that anymore. Uh, you can be a member of the union here.
The, uh, it's SAG AFTRA. It's this combination of the SAG Screen Actors Guild and the American Federation of Television and Radio Artists. So it used to be AFTRA, and that was called the Singers Union. If you were a professional singer in the U. S., you were an AFTRA member. Well, some years ago, uh, They combined with the, with the film actors and it's a more powerful union now, but there's different, the work's different because we don't have the same number of jingles and we don't have the TV variety shows that we used to have going back.
The 1960s, where a singer could, you know, dance a little bit and be on the Lawrence Welk show or the Merv Griffin show. And so we don't have a variety shows as much television work. It turns out the US represents over 40 percent of the global. Recorded music. That's a lot considering we only have what 350 million people here compared to the rest of the world.
Um, so we are by far the world's largest recorded, uh, music market, which I think is very interesting.
Challenges and Opportunities in Musical Theater
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Lisa Popeil: Uh, one of the things we have that for, for which there is work for singers who dance very important, I'll talk more about that is a musical theater. Musical theater is, is expanding. Internationally, and I'm, I'm very excited about that.
Uh, I was in Estonia recently or a few years ago and I asked about musical theater there and they didn't know what I meant by the word musical theater. They weren't familiar with that. Maybe I should have said musicals, but I have a sense that they, that that was not an English term they were familiar with.
Even though Phantom of the Opera. Which is, is, is considered technically a musical, was in the Tallinn, the capital, sung in Estonian. And, but they, I guess they didn't think of that as being part of musical theater. So, um, around the world, it's growing and there's going to be more and more work for people.
But, Almost as important if not more important than singing ability is dancing ability that like you said the ability to tap to know jazz to know ballroom, especially if you're starting out they in auditions. At the professional level, they'll, you come in as a singer, but they may have you do a dance audition first before they even hear you sing.
And I think singers who think, I think I'd like to do that, get into dance classes, learn, learn, you know, whatever the, do research. Cause it changes about what are the, the most important dance skills to have. Uh, but I, you know, off the top of my head And ballroom would be the basics. Um, otherwise they might not even hear you sit.
You might not even get a chance to sing.
Philippe: Yeah. That's difficult sometimes, you know, it's, it's true. If you can, if you can dance well and you can sing. You will work the most. Um, and that was, that was what I did. Um, I did a lot of ballroom cause I loved it. Not even before I was thinking of going into the business, but I did, I did.
I did a lot of dance training, tap, jazz, ballet, everything. And, and I, it allowed me to work because when you go to audition for a musical, there are a lot of jobs in the chorus. They're not that many jobs for soloists. And even though most of the musical programs today in the U. S., I've observed, as well as in, in Europe, they're training acting, act, singer actors.
So they want for the roles stronger actors, which is great, I think that's wonderful, and, and strong singers, but the singing's actually taking a second place more and more. And, but those are the roles, and there are not many roles in any given piece. So, the meat of the work is in the ensemble, and if you're in the, in the ensemble, you've got to be able to dance and sing, and then you will probably work consistently, but even as a soloist, they'll have separate auditions.
This is the dance singer, dancing singer audition, and this is the singer movement call. I think that's really fascinating. So, even as a singer actor, uh, it, it's good to have some movement. Um, something interesting I just want to throw in there that it's in Germany, Musiktheater, music theater is there with how they describe opera and operetta.
It's like the whole term. So some people over there, if you say musical theater, they might, they might not associate that with musicals, right? Cause it's, it's a term that's used, Musiktheater is opera in Germany. They don't they don't say opera like we do as it's a different thing. Yes. They know it's a different genre, but For them, operetta, opera is the musique thĆ©Ć¢tre, the music theater, and musicals is just part of that.
So it's, it's also fascinating. No, that's good to know.
Lisa Popeil: Uh, I have also interest, been interested, and I'd ask people at, at the conferences, when a musical comes to your main town, is it sung in English or is it sung in the, the, the, the native language? And if it's a If it's a major city in Europe, they're often done in English, and there are English language theaters.
They're called international theaters, which may do it in English. And then there are others that that will do them in their native language, particularly if it's, they don't. English isn't commonly used. But as, as small a population as we have, English is the, is the international language, which is so convenient for us.
So every conference I go to is in English. And sometimes when I'm presenting, they'll give me one or two words. I've had as many as two, uh, translators, where I will speak slowly and clearly and remove slang from, put a slang filter in so I don't use expressions that, uh, for which I might find something more clearly translatable, and then I wait for the translation.
But for the most part, it's, it's all in English. All the presentations, workshops is done in English and people are becoming more and more comfortable. They're just speaking English off the top of their head and, and the young people know, know all our expressions. I've been in Sweden several times and their English is superb, the young people.
And they write. Pop songs in English and sing pop songs really, really well. Uh, so musical theater is definitely a growing market for people who want to work. Um, uh, unfortunately they're, they require contracts. Uh, a certain amount of time, uh, whether, you know, let's say you're touring, uh, you know, and, and a six month contract, especially if you're touring or traveling around.
Um, so that's a lot of time and some people can't or won't, uh, or don't feel comfortable, you know, committing to a show for six months. Um, I've heard of one year contracts. I've heard of three month contracts, but mostly what I've heard, again, I'm not an expert because I haven't done it, is, is a six month contract, which is much easier if you're young, you're still living with your parents, uh, or if you have an apartment someplace and you can sublet it and you can just Travel around and sock away your money.
One of the vocal skills that is so, so important once you get the job is maintaining your voice because singing eight shows a week, uh, is, is tremendously difficult. Even if you're in, in the core, in the chorus, it's a lot of singing and there's a lot of socializing with all your friends and backstage. Um, so how to become a vocal monk and how to.
not have to leave or be replaced because you've lost your voice becomes almost more, more important than just doing the show. Cause you could do the show in your sleep. It's how to you keep your health up? How do you not get sick? And, um, How do you maintain your voice and not, uh, get, uh, voice, voice damage, you know, what, some kind of lesion.
And by lesion, I mean, um, uh, nodules, polyps, cysts, scar tissue, or just general swelling, which really isn't a lesion, but it's the, it's the predecessor to having a tissue that really shouldn't be there. So that's a huge challenge. Some people, they're, they're bulletproof. They're like. They can just do anything with their voice and their voice is fine.
Other people like me are more fragile, like a little flower. And so, uh, you know, I'd have to be, and I don't have a big head. Or big ribs. Those seem to be the two things which provide the big talked about that. You know, I saw this guy at a party recently and he, he didn't have a huge head, but he had huge ribs and you could hear him talk, talking from across the room.
He was, I had to put my earplugs in cause he was so loud. And I said to the person next to me, I said, big ribs. Um, anyway, so if you, the bigger the ribs, the bigger the head, you can sing loud, more loudly with, with, uh, less effort. So that's a little bit about, uh, musical theater. And there are schools in the U S which, uh, which do musical theater training, but not as much as you think.
And, um, but I haven't investigated all the curriculums and, you know, how much of it is dance and how much of it is acting, but you really need to be the true what's called, if you haven't heard the phrase before a triple threat. Um, and it seems to be dancing, acting, and singing, but as people's belting skills are getting better, uh, and, and the bar is being raised, just like at the Olympics, you know, people are sort of doing more and more difficult, higher, higher notes than ever expected before, used to be belt to a C, now it's belt to an E, but.
You know, if it's a more R& B show, you know, there's no limit. You, you, you know, really, you can go really, really high with your M1 or, or chest voice sound, and you've got to do it. sometimes two shows a day. Um, so that's a little, little bit about, about my musical theater. It's developing.
The Growing Market for Cruise Ship Performers
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Lisa Popeil: Another great way to make a living for a commercial singer is our cruise ships.
And if you're following the news, you see that there are more and more cruise ships, more, there are more and more baby boomers who would, Time to spare and money to spend who, who want good entertainment. And I was on, uh, uh, the, the new sun princess, the princess cruises, and it left Athens and went to seven days through the Mediterranean to Barcelona.
And the singers were. Were quite expert. They also had gymnastic, uh, flying silk gym gymnasts. There were people who played. Um, everyone was good, except a duo female do who played really bad, violent, screechy, too loud, not together. They were bad, but everyone else was was quite first rate. And they have these cover bands.
And this is a term I wanted to introduce today because a lot of pop singers who are singer songwriters aren't familiar with the term, terms top 40 or, or cover bands. Cover has become a little bit more commonly used, I believe, as a term than top 40 because we don't have cover bands. radio play, you know, is a big part, you know, it's, um, as a part of our national consciousness that, well, you know, what is the number one song in the country today on the radio?
It's just, that's sort of because of streaming. Um, so cover means that you are singing, not your own songs, you're singing other people's songs and, and, uh, and, and cruise ships are a great way to do that. Great bands, often a guy and a girl. Um, And you're singing, you're not singing that much, you know, like on this last cruise, I heard this one band, they were so good.
And they were older. These singers, they were not 20 year olds. They were 30s, 40s. Um, and they had also one gal, I saw one performance where they had the rock singing female, uh, and the rest of the band was playing rock. But what I've learned is that if you're in a cover band anywhere, you want to, you need to know about 200 songs.
Now they do have their iPad on a stand in front of them so they can check the words. But basically that's the prerequisite is that you can memorize 200 songs. That's I can't do that. I can't memorize barely one song, two songs. I can do girl from Ipanema cause I learned it when I was like eight years old.
So I can actually, and it's short, so I can get through girl from Ipanema pretty reliably. Uh, the national anthem star spangled banner. Yeah, I don't trust myself. So cover songs are not for me. But. Uh, they also have these contracts, these, these six month contracts living in a very small, not very chic root cabin on, on a ship.
Some people love it. Some people find it lonely and depressing and they don't really care that they're going to the same, the same and the food, my God, the food is so good that you just blow up. Even if you tried a diet that just food everywhere. All the time and it's delicious. So, you know, um, so anyway, cruise ships and musical theater internationally are growing and there's, there's work for singers, songwriters.
There are a number of growing programs of university programs where you could get a bachelor's. I saw a couple that where you could get a master's, but mostly it's a bachelor's degree. a four year degree in, in pop singing, and they do some, but it's often linked with songwriting and, um, music theory, and they might have a recording studio there.
So you're learning about, uh, how, you know, what, not just doing recording on your laptop, but actual, an actual recording studio, which is what I grew up with since I was 11 years old. I was so hooked. It was, you know, this was. before you could do anything on your own. Um, so there's, and also jazz, the jazz vocal curriculum is different than the pop vocal curriculum.
It's slightly different because there's just jazz has, and I really think, uh, that some of the reason that jazz is not more popular is because, um, because of bebop, because of atonal jazz that started. You know, 50, 60 years ago, I think it lost an audience. And a lot of that was non vocal. So I think we've lost, um, and there probably are other reasons.
Maybe, maybe it all real jazz always had a small audiences, you know, specialized audience. Um, it, I think if you're a jazz singer, you have more luck in Europe. Like the French love American jazz singing. They'll, they'll. They'll, they'll pay for that, but here you're going to have smaller audiences, but the ability to scat and the musical ability is, it needs to be much, much higher.
There's no auto tuning. It's it's, and, and the expression is, um, is a different than being a pop singer. Pop singing is really for young people and jazz singing is really for people who've lived, uh, you know, if you're young, um, like Jane Monheit, when she started, uh, uh, Recording and touring. And she was like 23, she was great, but people didn't give her credit cred for that credibility, because how can you be a great jazz singer and be that young?
It's the kind of style that comes from multiple divorces, alcoholism, you know, the, the real stuff that happens to people and, you know, the broken hearts and how much, how, how many, How many times has your heart been broken at 23? Well, mine was actually quite a few, but
yeah, I had a little, a little, a little problem with that. But, um, my, my point is that, uh, if, if you love jazz, there's, there's room for you artistically out there. The jazz world needs you, but it's popular means popular that it pop means popular, that it's going to appeal to a a larger. audience.
Accents and Pronunciation in Singing
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Lisa Popeil: Something else I wanted to mention was, um, accents.
I, I, when I was in Italy, I know it just sounds like I'm bragging all the time, humble bragging. Uh, what can I say? This is what we're talking about today. So I go to, I go to Italy, they want to sing, Pop like an and sound like an American, but they know that their accent is holding them back They don't know what they're doing wrong, but they know they haven't mastered the American accent So in future programs that I do including a teacher training program I'm sort of everything in my brain done, you know as video courses that I may or may not start next year one of them will be The different American dialects used because this isn't just one American dialect that's used there in America.
I think I have five different ones that that are used in all styles of singing that I might do where I would sing in English. Um, but there's, there's two basic ones that are used in popular music. And. So I think that they would appreciate that information because people want to sound like Americans.
They can, they look up to us. They think we're cool. They think we're hip. And if they're going to do English and they do, they, they don't want to sound like they're, they're faking it. So there's, there's a place out there for more discussion and talk and training in the, the, the two main dialects used. One I call standard, Uh, and one I call soul.
And the soul has sort of taken over, um, the soul, just a quick example since we probably have the time. The standard, the most typical, uh, um, example of the standard American dialect is the diphthong, the double vowel sound, sound ayi. And it's very common in English, as in the following words, I, my, I, try, sigh, night, Live, so they all have the same IE combination.
And that's the way most of us speak. It's what you hear on the, on the news, and it is a traditional pronunciation prior to maybe the, the, the 50 Elvis, you know, so prior, prior to Elvis, um, and then with the influence of, uh, African American music and being loved by the white, young white audiences, that aspect of that accent from the South started to permeate and is now considered standard, normal, regular, most often heard, and I call it the soul dialect.
And now this diphthong goes from IE to IE. IE. Night. IE. My. I. And you want to stay with it. So if you're doing a song that uses this dialect, you want to make sure that if you do this pronunciation, that you continue it through the rest of the song. There are a couple of other sort of main ones, but the I versus I, I.
is, is definitely a thing. And, uh, you might not learn that, uh, the universe, you know, when you're studying classical voice at a conservatory, um, there is one more that is used, but I don't recommend it. And that's just where it's not a diphthong at all. It's just, ah. I love my life. It just sounds artificial.
Like I'm trying too hard to be cool. So I teach the, I, and it really makes a difference when people, uh, are consistent, pick one and are consistent. Uh, but they're both, they're both you. So that's a little bit about accents when people, people want to sing in English. Uh, another thing I, I was in Shanghai a few years ago and, uh, there was, uh, some discussion.
I, I wanted to learn more about, well, what about pop? You know, what about, and they bring what, what they said was we bring in Koreans South from South Korea. We bring in South Korean producers. Yeah. Yeah. Two. teach our young people how to, you know, sing in a, in a pop, pop way. So I don't know if there's a C pop yet, but you know, there was, this was at the high, A pop.
They didn't bring in the Japanese, interestingly, but they brought in the South Koreans.
Philippe: Yeah, they're very good. They're very good. Uh, it's very popular at the moment. Even I even have some clients that are living in. Uh, one client lives in Germany that's, that's working on K pop with, with one of their programs just to, uh, get in there.
And it's really fascinating. I, I'd like to just, before we jump into the, the China, uh, connection and your experience there, also just talk about briefly these accents. Um, I actually had a client from Italy that does wonderful cover, um, pop jazz and, uh, working specifically with me on her English pronunciation.
And it's very fascinating. I mean, we can talk for a moment on how important vowels are in singing. Is it? It's difficult part of the difficulty with getting rid of an accent. There's two two parts It's one you have to be able to hear the nuance of that vowel And the other one is you have to be able to you have to learn to position Your tongue, your mouth, your vocal tracks, slightly differently to make that happen.
And there are a lot of really great singing advantages to, to being able to do that, right? The vocal folds, there's less stress on the vocal folds. If you're on the right vowel, you got better acoustics, you have, it sounds more authentic often and it's just easier to do.
Lisa Popeil: And it's really hard when you come from a language like Italian that has, wait, there were one, two.
Three, four, five, seven vowels, I believe. And we have more than that. So we have sounds that there amounts of, you know, in all, you know, working with someone from, uh, Iran or someone from India or someone from Russia, Russians seem to have the most difficulty at reducing, forget eliminating an accent, but even reducing accents.
Um, I, they've, I've sort of given up on that, but, um, given up hope. But, um, So, and I have lists, practice words for each of these, particularly the vowels that they've never made before, such as a vowel we take, you know, for granted, it, the, uh, the, what used to be called the short I, the I sound. It's very common in English.
And it is not a sound that most people in Europe make.
Philippe: Right. My wife is. My wife is French, sorry we're talking over each other a little bit, but my wife is French and she cannot hear really the difference between I and IH.
Lisa Popeil: IH, and so it comes out somewhere in between or Yeah, she won't
Philippe: say HIT, she'll say HIT.
Or bit and beat. They're totally different meanings in English. But for her, it sounds pretty much the same. So it's, it's, it's a constant challenge. Yeah.
Lisa Popeil: And another one that is really tough is uh. And I've worked with a lot of Americans on uh, because we weren't taught this way. We weren't, We learn to speak by listening to our parents speak, so we don't actually know what we do.
So the uh vowel has many different spellings in English, which is very confusing. I'm sure like book, should, um, Well, there's all the woods, uh, could, but there's other ones, um, I can't think of them right now, but there are several different spellings for the uh sound, or even the uh sound, the uh, which is people think, oh, it's not that common.
Actually, it's in the word the, uh, with an E is the, uh, sound and the word a, uh, sound. A book, a book is uh, so uh is probably the most common vowel sound in English, but people think e is or something. So I have sheets, first practice sheets, where I just on my voice memo, because I teach online only now anyway, is on my voice memo, I just go through the list.
I say the word as perfectly as possible and I leave a little space for them to practice, whether they practice or not is beyond my, my skill or capacity, but it's, it's right there. So ear training and mouth training and imitation is so, so important. And that's why that I'm, I'm a big proponent of seeing teachers being able to demonstrate accurately What they want their students to do.
And cause I've had so many teachers who were struggling themselves to show me something. And I, I remember when I started out, I'd struggle, I'd say, Oh, I can do it better. I can do it better. Let me try it again. And by the third or fourth time, I got what I wanted them to do. This is not good enough. It was, you know, write it down, Lisa, and practice that.
So it doesn't, you minimize, maybe you'll, Always be a challenge. But work harder, Lisa, if you're going to be showing people what you want them, or what you want them to do. Um, I had some other, oh, I, it's actually a great time for a little plug because I have a book and it's available on my website, um, uh, as a, a download.
And it, it talks a lot about all these different ways you can make money as, as, as a singer. And I interviewed people who do that and what kind of money, I mean, people don't like to talk about money, but come on it, monies and amounts. And are you going to eat or be able to pay the rents kind of important?
So I'd ask them, I said, what is the range of money for that particular job? So that alone, I think is really interesting. And, and, um, I got a new question.
The Role of Social Media and PR in a Singing Career
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Lisa Popeil: They're in my revised edition in the download that's about social media and how incredibly important that has become. Um, for, for better or worse, uh, you know, in the past when I was an artist in the eighties, I had to have a P I had a PR person, a PR specialist that made things happen, uh, with famous people and parties and lots of, uh, uh, publicity.
PR stands for public relations. I had a manager, you know, there's the question of what's an agent, how is an agent different from a manager? Uh, so it's, it's, it, all these different team people are in the book and often people who are, at a pretty high level, we'll have all these people. There'll be record company, uh, executives.
What does A& R mean? What role do they play? Um, radio promotion, it still exists. How do I get my song? What, what has to happen to get my song heard, uh, on the radio or on streaming platforms that I don't have to do everything myself. So. That sounds like a
Philippe: valuable resource.
Lisa Popeil: And it's simple. It's a very, you know, it's a, it's a very short book.
Um, but it's a lot of meat and very little fat in it.
Exploring the Journey of Famous Singers
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Lisa Popeil: Another thing in the book that, uh, was that I took, and this was written a few years ago as I, I looked at 10 different famous singers, singers who let's, for lack of a better term, made it in the business. Yeah. And there I did five women and five men.
And I looked, I researched their history and how did they get from Nothing to their first hit and the stories. You've got to read it to believe it. I mean, I was stunned to see how much rejection. Some of these people have have gone through and how much work and they've had to do, you know, just to Build it to the point where they got lucky and or got, you know, or were skilled enough and again, and you can't deny that there's a lot of luck because you might be one person away from a life changing decision that's going to, you know, impact your whether you have a career or not.
But like Katy Perry's story was just shocking. Uh, you know, this record deal that fell through or this record deal where she was dropped. I mean, it was just multiple record deals.
Understanding Record Deals
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Lisa Popeil: Uh, it talks also the book, there's more on, well, what is a record deal and what's involved? What am I signing here? When I signed a record deal, In 1984, there were things about it that I thought were so unfair.
And I'll tell you that the main thing that just shocked me was that I was going to, I was writing songs and they wanted rights. They wanted the publishing, meaning 50 percent of any song that I wrote that made money, they, as a publisher, they would take what's called my publishing share, 50 percent of the value of the song, not just during the course of the contract, but in perpetuity.
So the contract ends, I'm no longer with them. And the contract said, it was asking me to sign that for the rest of my life, they would take my publishing out. They, they sold to Sony, nothing ever happened, but I took this to my advisor at the time. And I said, this is, this is just crazy. And he said, sign it.
He said, you may never just sign it. You may never get another opportunity again. So, So I signed it. And so there's that kind of thing.
Navigating the Music Industry
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Lisa Popeil: I mean, who do you go for advice? How many people do you know who've had a record deal? You know, how, uh, entertainment attorneys, how do I find an entertainment attorney? How much do they charge?
How can I get them to charge less? And so all of these sort of practical things about building a career, how do I find a manager? How do I know if somebody who wants to manage me is competent to manage me? These are all things. And when you're on your own, You have to sleep sometimes. There's only so many hours of the day that you can do your videos and your daily Instagram and your, your, um, other social media responsibilities and, and booking your own gigs.
There's a lot that people are expected to do now. You're expected to be your own recording engineer, your own songwriter or collaborative songwriter. You have to put out content. Constantly, you have to try to get booked at music festivals. Um, it's, it's, it's a lot of work and it's not for the unhealthy or the unambitious.
The Reality of Pursuing a Music Career
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Lisa Popeil: If you're just kind of like, I just kind of want to put my foot in. I like sitting in my bedroom and writing my little song. Okay. Great. Enjoy yourself, but don't fantasize that you're going to have a professional career. It, it, you almost need blood on your teeth to have a professional career. You have to have almost a screw loose, like something, like some trauma, childhood trauma that makes, makes you need approval to, to be a professional.
That you will do anything you will step on any toes. You will do anything to get the applause and the love. There's a mental illness, but a lot of people who are really successful have that mental illness and, um, And we get to enjoy their art, you know, but I wouldn't want to be that person who's constantly working for hits, you know, and so when I quit the music business, it was probably a blessing because I've been a much better, more effective teacher than I think I would have been.
And it's been everything I've ever learned from acting and dance and languages and piano and composition and song, everything ever I've done, I've been able to. to do something good instead of just stand up there, look, look sexy and cute and sing some songs and make a ton of money, which actually would have been kind of nice.
But the point is that if you, if, if you have students or people who are listening to this, he'll go, Oh, I think that sounds really fun. No, it's, it's a constant. And there's a time limit, you know, I've had people come to me, students, and they're in their late thirties and they, they, you know, and they're kind of average looking and they don't, you know, they're, they're good singers and, but they're, you
Philippe: know, it's, it's tough.
I also say, I mean, people ask me all the time and I just have a conversation, a real conversation with them.
The Passion and Persistence Required
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Philippe: Um, I would say, look, if you, if you absolutely feel pulled or called to do this, like this is what you're meant to do, and there's, you, you're, you have to have this passion for it, then do it. If you need security or any kind of regularity in your life.
Don't do it because it's up and down. It's chaotic. You're gonna you have to be willing to be poor You have you're gonna invest a lot of money and a ton of energy And the only way that that anybody maintains motivation to do that is their personal conviction. That's their passion for it Everybody told me to quit I mean even when I got to the university my acting professor said I don't think this is gonna work out for you And I said, well i'll learn what I need to do because I had that.
Oh, yeah Well, this is what i'm gonna do I will I will learn the skills and when I finished the first year out of university. I worked as a professional actor So accomplishment and then going into the business, but it's hard, you know I know a lot of talented kids that will go out and they they won't get hired after six seven eight auditions and they think They're not good enough and they quit.
That's just the name of the game. You have to keep going and going and going and then you will find the people that you work with. Everybody told me I was insane to switch from a successful musical career into opera and take the time to do that, but I was deeply had the passion and passion
Lisa Popeil: chooses us.
You know, we don't choose it. It just likes like a bug bite. It gets you. And you may, there are some people who will say, I'm going to give this X amount of time. I'm going to give it everything. I've got, because I'm young, because I feel like I have what it takes. I'm going to give it. And, and other people say, I'm not going to give myself a plan B.
I am not going to consider. Any time limit on it. So, but that's again, that's the way they're wired.
Philippe: It's a mentality thing.
Addressing Common Vocal Questions
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Philippe: I got a question real quick. We had a Horatio, um, pop up this question. I think it'd be good to talk about because it's a question I get a lot. I'm sure you've heard the question about vibrato.
Um, can you, can you see that? Can anyone develop vibrato? I've tried for a long time and it seems like I'm missing something. Maybe there are physical restrictions. I can do a hammer vibrato, meaning, uh, you know, the cable guy. Um, so yeah, can anyone learn
Lisa Popeil: vibrato? I've only met, I've only worked with one person out of many thousands.
But it was a long time ago, and I didn't know all the tricks I know now, but I, no matter what I tried with him, um, he couldn't do a reliable vibrato, but that was only one. And there was nothing unusual about him that I noticed.
Diving Deep into Vibrato Techniques
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Lisa Popeil: Um, So I, I loved your, I love your question. I think it's really well formulated.
I would not give up. Um, I would not give up trying techniques. Sometimes you're one, like in the recording studio, you know, They'll say, it's not working, nothing's working, what's going on, where's the sound? And so there's this saying in recording studios, you're only one button away from a solution. So it could be that you're one hack or one trick away from doing it.
But the main thing I think too, for somebody who doesn't have vibrato, is is that you must try to get this to wiggle. If there's no movement here, you will hammer. You want, and I even have done it with fingers where they do it themselves, or if I'm in person with them, I'll wiggle it. I don't know if, if I have, uh, I just did a two hour, was it two hours or an hour and a half presentation for the Beijing Central Conservatory of Music, and it was only on vibrato.
I'm happy to, happy to send it to you.
Philippe: Yeah. Let's talk, let's just say basics. What happens, what happens? Well, it's
Lisa Popeil: the most comprehensive. It's very, it's very deep and it's not, none of it's proven because in order to really look, we need to put needles in these different muscles, but some of the, the characteristics, everyone has different, um, meaning not everyone uses all the same mechanisms.
One of the missing mechanisms for vibrato is the idea that for most people, The, the larynx itself wiggles up and down, and if it doesn't wiggle, then they, they, they have a vibrato problem. So there's wiggling of the larynx itself. There's a function called visoring. This is the thyroid cartilage. This is the cricoid cartilage.
And right there, Oh, let me do that. Right there is a joint. And so some people with faster vibratos. don't wiggle their voice box. This is my belief. They don't wiggle, but these move like this. So I think, and I, I think I do both, but. People with faster, really fast vibratos, but still good. You can still hear the pitch change.
They're doing visoring. And people with slower vibratos, like mine, tend to have more of the, the whole boxes moving up and down. There are also a number of muscles here. They're called the supra hyoids. And that means the, the, the muscles above the hyoid bone, which is right there is the hyoid bone under the tongue that can move in different ways.
So there are different vibrato types. There's ones where these muscles on me are actually alternating creating a movement, a lateral, uh, fluctuating movement of the voice box. So not only is it moving up and down, it's also doing like that little shaka hand gesture. So when I do my classical vibrato, I'm, I can feel those muscles alternating.
without my permission. They just do it to make the sound. So there's a lateral motion possible. There's a different motion where if I take these muscles and I move them together at meaning on, off, on, off simultaneously, it makes the hyoid bone pull forward in a fluctuating way. And it creates It eliminates the lateral movement and it gives me what I call a jazzy vibrato, the one I like to use for jazz.
And that's what, this is what that sounds like. Hey, if you were here Horatio, and you touched my muscles, you'd feel them go on and off, on and off, and you'd feel the hyoid bone pulling forward. So there's Vibrato speeds, different vibrato types. Some people can do a lot of different vibratos. Some people are lucky just to have one good one.
Yeah. The window of speed, to me, of the ideal speed is much narrower than is considered in the literature. Like in China, one of the questions was that what they teach there is that vibratos can be as slow and they only did classical. They didn't know anything about commercial voice, which I thought was not so good, but.
That's it. Lovely people, but they're kind of like way behind. Anyway, they, they, in their literature, they talk about vibrato speed. It could be as slow as four cycles per second. That means an uppy and a downy. As the pitch moves up, the pitch moves down, that's one cycle. That as many, as little as four cycles per second is acceptable.
Mm mm. And as fast as seven. Mm mm. To me, the, I, in our literature, we talk about between five and seven. I guess I should do it mere five and seven. Seven. Anyway, to me, seven is just too fast. Some people won't mind it, the listener, but I, what if we could mod it? We could not only make a vibrato that sounds pleasant, is consistent, uh, controlled, and you, it doesn't always just happen accidentally.
I'm a big proponent of choosing when to do vibrato, not that it's just singing like they thought at the conservatory to them. And in our class, traditional classical world here, vibrato and singing are linked and that's a problem. If they ever want to do commercial music, they have to learn how to do straight tone.
That's really hard because it doesn't feel right. It feels unnatural because they've trained themselves that singing and vibrato are the same kind of thing. Okay. But I digress. So I believe that our window of of vibrato speed should be as narrow as five and a half to six and a half. And the reason I say this is because the, the wider, the range of vibrato speeds that you're going to lose people, you're going to lose audience.
It goes, I don't like it. I don't know. I don't really like their voice. They don't know why. People don't know what vibrato is. I work with singers who come to me, they don't even know what a melody is. They don't know what rhythm is, what that means. They don't know what a tempo is, or what beat is. They don't know what harmony is.
The Importance of Musical Knowledge
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Lisa Popeil: It's amazing how many people, beginners, want to sing and they don't know the basics of music. Which is shocking to those of us who had some kind of musical introduction, you know, in kindergarten, but they didn't for whatever, they came from another country, there was no music in their house, and so they don't know anything about things we take for granted as, you know, having been exposed to music.
So that's my opinion that, um, that if you're too fast, you're going to lose people. They don't know why, but I don't like your voice. And if it's too slow, you sound wobbly and we don't need to get into that. But there are other mechanisms going on, but the main ones are wiggling, uh, rocking, as I call it, that lateral motion and this other one where, um, you can, and you, anyway, there's, there's many different kinds of vibrato, but it starts with wiggling and also making sure that the upper belly is firmed out, but is it that you can jiggle it at this?
You put your free fingers on your magic spot and you, as you're holding a soft, it's important to practice vibrato at a soft volume. I'm not loud. You won't be able to do it. So you're holding a straight tone, softly. And this goes out as I teach in support. Let me adjust my top as one, one needs to do on these formats.
So I'm going to do, let me show it this way. Now the key is to not to do it too fast. I should do it more slowly. Firms out for the sound.
And I would say. jiggle it, push in and out slowly and see if you notice that there's wiggling going on. Another thing to be aware of is that if you are, if you have what I call hard closure or squeezed closure where the chords are doing that, then the vibrato won't happen either. So you have to have a, a soft deduction, a soft closure, And just thinking I'm going to sing more softly, but with good support usually does the trick.
You don't have to like pick an adduction from my 10, my chart of 10 adduction, just soft closure. So I mean, a light closure, soft sound with good support, and then jiggle slowly and see if you can feel wiggling. And that's can, that can jumpstart the movement required for most people.
Philippe: Thank you. That's such a great detail. I'm really happy that we got, we got on the topic of vibrato because the people are looking for it. They're either looking to do it or looking to get rid of it. And, and I'm absolutely in agreement with you. I think that there's. It's movement. You have to allow for some movement and there's different tricks in creating the movement And there's different things that will Will keep it from moving so horatio Reach out to me reach out to lisa We can definitely help and I think that's also why in classical singing, you know, the whole bel canto and this tradition people Used to say your vibrato will appear naturally.
I don't believe that, but Mm-Hmm. The, the truth is when the better you get at singing, the less tension you will have that could inhibit the vibrato.
Lisa Popeil: Yes. So
Philippe: then it can happen easier. So I think that's why they. They came up with that old saying, it will just come well, the better your technique gets, the less tension you have them, the easier it is for things to move.
I'll agree on that, but it's not really magically appear.
Lisa Popeil: Yeah. And it's because people have been teaching the same techniques for What, 300 years? And it was, we didn't know anything, you know, we couldn't see inside. So it was all image based, you know, the flame, you know, the flickering flame or the ping pong ball on a fountain of air.
And it worked for talented singers to get them to be, you know, they were already singers. And in the old days, if you were an opera singer, you would, You would go and live at the teacher's house and you would be with them all day, every day for a period of time. It was a very, a very intense, uh, immersive system to prepare one for the operatic stage.
And, you know, no life outside of, you know, opera. It's funny
Philippe: that Horacio, he did ask the question and I didn't put it in the podcast, but You demonstrated exactly that. So you answered that question with the solar plexus. Yeah. That's one method. There's another. There's a simple one where you just shake your voice a little bit.
There's a lot of tricks.
Lisa Popeil: Sometimes if there's tension here that can inhibit free motion. So you could do that. I use hand gestures where that straight tone hand and then there's. Different hand gestures, there's whacking the water to have a slower vibrato. There's the, the vibrato fingers where you quickly push the fingers away from your face.
And that helps speed up a too slow vibrato. Uh, so hand gestures for a lot of people works beautifully. Other people, they're not kinesthetic. And it just, it's one more thing they have to worry about. You know what this But, but, and I'd say 90 percent of the time that hand gestures really work to elicit
Philippe: movement.
You can take one of these bands too and go, ah, ah, and just, it's just a stretchy band and, and shake it.
Lisa Popeil: I haven't seen that one. That's cool.
Philippe: Yes. And
Lisa Popeil: when you say fake, fake can be lots of different things, but if you, when you first start doing vibrato, you may think it's weird or ugly and it may not be your final finished, uh, you know, perfect form.
Um, But anything that's new feels scary and weird. So, um, and you may think of it as, as fake, but vibrato is fake. You see, people say it's, it's natural. It is not natural. There are cultures in the world. If you, you know, set me down and, you know, the Kalahari and I went, well, they're going to, you know, who knows what they're going to do.
They're going to run probably not only am I holding a note in, in head voice, which is weird, but I'm doing this loud vibrato. So it's like, what is that? So vibrato and head voice singing is, is a. A unique combination that we're, we're used to if you've had classical training, but if you, if you haven't been exposed to it, it's a truly odd thing.
The only thing that's natural is talking and variations of talking. And vibrato is the only thing in singing that does not, uh, come from talking or, or giggling, you know, Hello, how are you? Oh, my little baby. You know, that's head voice. So. We do use that. We can talk in specialty situations with head voice.
I found, well, I went to my yoga class yesterday, went, hi, you know, and I went, Oh. And I wasn't the only one who would kind of go up there. Um, but vibrato is, is, is an ornament and I consider it to be a volitional ornament. Volitional meaning it's a choice. It's a, it's a choice a singer should, should make.
And ideally if you're singing different styles, you know, if you have a, you adjust your vibrato for the style, that's, that's cool, but it's not, it's not necessary to be. Appreciate it as, as a singer. Again, if you have one good vibrato with it, not too slow, not too fast, and not all the time, then, um, even classical singers now aren't using vibrato a hundred percent of the time that's not considered it's, it's more modern style of opera singing.
You go, Oh, that was straight. Oh, that was straight. They may be short, but they're like, Ooh, that was straight. You know, that's 30 percent straight and 70 percent vibrato. So. You know, it's changing tastes and styles change over time. I want to
Philippe: Horatio, um, it's great, great class. Give yourself some time, you know, like Elisa said.
A lot of singers think they're doing it wrong because they take a step in the right direction and they're not at their finished product. Well, you got to allow yourself to take the steps to get there. So for any singers, you know, give yourself a little bit of time. As long as you're taking the steps in the right direction, then your outcome is inevitable.
Lisa Popeil: And that's why having a voice teacher can be helpful because they can reassure you that you're on the right path. But it's not as weird or ugly or strange as it may feel to you. And they go, no, that's okay. You're getting it. You're getting it now. Don't touch your belly or don't pull on the strap or don't, you know, see if you can remember the sound and the feeling of it and do it.
And just by standing there. So, so we're not only, uh, singing teachers, not only act as professional ears, but we're also therapists. We also will. Let you know to not worry so much about certain things. Um, When, you know, you pick which battles to pick, which battles to fight and which battles say, it's really not a problem.
You know, like a sinus infection, I have a new student and he had an infection. He had sinus surgery and I've been investigating sinus surgery. So this is not something I've really given much thought to. And I went, people come to me with all kinds of medical issues relating to their voice. And I need to up my game so that I can, uh, give them some, some advice instead of, I don't know, let me Google it and get back to you.
So I, uh, I found out about the difference between balloon sinusplasty, where they put a balloon in and it just opens up some of the, the, The, the spaces in the, in the sinuses here versus septoplasty, where they straighten the bridge of the nose or repair the bridge of the nose. If you were doing too much cocaine back in the day, um, also turbinate reduction surgeries, three different ways.
I didn't know about this turbinate reduction and how it really can change your voice and how they can use it. They can use a laser and they can use or they can use a little tool, which kind of goes in and drills out the extra drills and sucks out a little additional tissue. So you can breathe if you're having trouble breathing at night, particularly.
And that when you change the tissues of your inside your nose, that it can affect your voice. But what this guy who was so freaking out about it because he felt his voice was so different. When I started working with him, his posture was crap. He, he, he didn't, he, once I got him to stand up tall and I showed him some support jobs up, chest up, ribs out, upper belly, magic spot, Gently firms out lower belly goes in that excessive nasality in his voice just disappeared.
He sounded beautiful. I thought yeah, so So sometimes there's a problem and it's not the the cause of the problem is not what you Think it might be it often it has to do with going back to basics. So, but also Thinus surgery, there might be some scar tissue, which might not vibrate the same way So it might feel different, but it still sounds good So there's another another issue is is things can change and if you age women who are aging The voice is is lowering if unless you take hormone replacements As you take estrogen at menopause You The voice, you know, the whole body can change, it can masculinize, you drop, your range drops.
I had a woman who, she had been a coloratura soprano, opera singer, and when she hit menopause, she said her voice dropped an octave and a half. And she, but she had a really positive spin on it. She said, but you know what? I can sing all that jazz stuff. I really wanted to sing and I really couldn't do it before.
I went, yes! Looking for the blessing, looking for the glass apple. What were you going to say? I
Philippe: just had a question. I know you have something you want to share, so we're going to wrap this up in about 15 minutes. Other jobs,
Alternative Music Careers
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Lisa Popeil: in the book, they're in the book, but other jobs, because people go, you know, what am I doing?
Am I wasting my time? Not necessarily. It depends on what you're willing to do. to do for work and what you're not willing to do. And, um, so besides cruise ships and cover bands, um, I have a student now and she doesn't do, uh, well, she does cover bands, but they're, she's in a band, they do corporate events, they do weddings, they do, uh, bat and bar mitzvahs.
And, um, You know, it's how she makes a living. She's in four bands, four cover bands, and some of them are pretty big bands. They might have a horn section, uh, definitely a combo and, you know, she's got the outfits and, uh, so this is how she lives and she's, you know, she's happy with it. I have another friend who I just met last week who was a jazz singer.
I met her as, uh, when she was a jazz singer and I was so inspired by her. She didn't know anything about music, you know, what we think of as music theory or music, but. in the 80s when I saw her perform. I was in college then and I, uh, well, I guess it was actually, yeah, about 1980 and I couldn't believe how fabulous she was.
All the stuff she was doing. I didn't, wasn't getting taught at college because I was doing classical. She was the way she interacted with the audience. That's a real gift. How you rib your musicians, how you do the set list. All of these things are so important when you're a live performer, you don't just go up there and sound good.
Um, The way she improvised, the way she would do these standards, and every time she did them, she would do them differently. I just was awestruck. I didn't see, I've been friends, you know, friends with her ever since. And she's going to be performing at a five star hotel in a lounge coming up. So she's in her seventies, but she's still getting getting work because she's famous in the city that she's in, which, by the way, can be really helpful.
You know, when you're in a small town and you are the go to person for, for, for gigs. Um, she, she doesn't have a, a manager. She just, you know, she'll actually reach out to them and say, here's who I am. Here's my website. Here's my, my press kit, um, my digital press kit. And she, she still gets work. Another person I interviewed, I think is in the book, was if you're a, you're a hotel singer.
At international hotels, again, they need a contract, but you can sing in the lobby. Uh, or you can sing if it's a, it's a dance gig, like some, some of like in Hong Kong, uh, in Asia, they have these rooms where, um, you know, they're doing like more dance, dancey, uh, disco stuff. And then, you know, So they might have multiple ways for people to make a living, and there's some pros and cons to it.
You know, you are living in a hotel room, but I hear that the hotel rooms at these five star hotels are very nice. You get your food comped, you're stocking away your money. If you can sublet your apartment, if you have rent an apartment, um, you There are some issues with smoke because people, the audience often will be smoking so and you have to get your clothes cleaned because you get smoke in it.
I mean, it's just all to me fascinating stuff. Also, there's a, you know, you might get hit if you're a beautiful woman, you know, you might get hit on a lot and that could be a problem if you don't know how to handle it. But the, the gal I spoke to not only had a, a, a contract, I think she had a three month contract in Hong Kong.
But in the evening, she'd go to a small little like restaurant club where all the other expat musicians would go and she would just sing with them and have a great time. So music, live music is more common. In outside the U. S. than it used to be. It used to be that you could be in a club band and you were this restaurant's club band.
You you were the band and you played every, you know, several nights a week and forever and we don't have as much live music. DJ's put, you know, it was cheaper to hire a DJ or just pipe in music on the speakers. So there's less of that work. But internationally, there's still. exists work from what I'm told for, for live cover bands.
There's also tribute bands. I just last week sang with a Zappa tribute band, a really, really good one called Stinkfoot Orchestra, 14 piece with a horn section. And though for most of them, it's a labor of love, they're San Francisco based, um, For some, I'm sure there's, there's some money coming in when they tour and they had two terrific backup singers.
And I came in as a, uh, having performed and recorded with Frank Sapa. Uh, I K uh, they invited me to come and sit in and I did my, my infamous song. Well, third time, only third time I've ever performed in my whole life. And there were people there who had seen me perform it live in 1981. And they, and I was.
were lining up for autographs and photos, and it was very, very nice for my ego to feel You know, that I could, that I could still sing and that I could still put on a show, and that pe it, it meant something to people. You know, that it's, it's important to me that, and I think a lot of people feel this way, that you wanna give, you want to, we're in the happiness business as teachers and as performers.
You want to uplift people. And it's so important when you are working on your own voice to have that goal in mind too. Not just how do I pay rent, but how do I. Create an impression. How do I make people, somebody who's depressed, uh, brighten their spirits? Give them something to look forward to. Uh, always be kind to the people who, who think you're wonderful.
Develop your fans and, and Do extras for them. Always go out of your way for your fans. They will repay you, uh, in kind. Plus some of them are just really nice people. You'll meet a couple of wackos along the way, but I've never had a problem. I mean, even though I had one guy from Germany write me once years ago, I cut your picture out of a magazine and I taped it to my ceiling.
It's like, okay, that's creepy, but he's not. He's not flying to Los Angeles with a knife anytime soon. So it never was, you know.
Philippe: That's very funny. Yeah, it's, it's the real essence. Remember why you're singing in the first place. You're singing because you heard something that inspired you and you actually, the real desire, you want to, you want to do the same thing.
You want to feel that feeling again. And when you hear the music and seeing the music, you first, you're feeling that feeling again. You're recreating that, but you're also passing it on. It is a labor of love and joy. So enjoy it. If you, if you're not enjoying it, it's no more, it's no fun anymore.
Lisa Popeil: There are so many people would be us.
There are people who have no talent for music. They are sometimes the biggest fans of all the most devoted fans, because we can do this magical thing that they can't do. They can specialize in other things, but the super fans out there, they are not Usually musicians, otherwise musicians will sit there and critique a show.
Well, they were a little bit, you know, late on that entrance, but that non musician thinks it's all so glorious and makes living worthwhile. And I've, I've seen superfans, not mine. I don't have superfans, but I've been with, uh, artists who do, and I've seen, I've got to learn about the superfans and they're, they're just so lovely.
And they so appreciate every little, um, Every little bit of knowledge they have about you and, and what you like and what your life is like and what you're working on now. And they just know they'll love it. Whatever you do, they're just gonna love. And that's a kind of a responsibility too, once you have developed fans Yeah.
Is consistently deliver and then you have a relationship with them on some level for, for the rest of your lives. That's a, that's very nice.
Philippe: Yes, it is.
Final Thoughts and Encouragement
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Philippe: Uh, I want to share something here as we wrap things up. Um, always, always great to have you, Lisa. There's always so many things to talk about with somebody that has had so much international experience.
Um, I, I in my career have done most of those things that Lisa has, has, um, talked about today. So this is a great, a great, Start to your information and it's one of where you've compiled that in a book We'll I'll get the link for you So you can get that free download and put that in the description as an artist as a performer I hope you feel inspired that there are so many ways that you can participate in the business of entertainment and Doing it your way and that varies from being an international traveling artist to being it Just doing gigs and weddings and little things in your own hometown Where people appreciate you and you are making a difference so you can make a living in the business You don't need to be a superstar international to feel successful or good about yourself You just find your niche and find what inspires you and share that there are A lot of ways and the more, the more, uh, you do, the more that will expand.
And for any singer listening, because Lisa did mention it earlier, and I do agree to work as a cover band singer, which there are loads of cover bands looking for good singers, you 200 songs and you might think that's totally. And unachievable the reality is you don't know none of them and you will not build that in a month But you can learn a lot of songs quickly.
You just you start with one set you need 45 minutes of music Learn your 10 12 songs, then you'll move on to the next 10 12 songs and after maybe six months You'll be sitting on 200 songs Maybe they're not all perfect yet But you'll be familiar enough to have be up there with the ipad and lyrics And jump in and gig so you can do it.
It doesn't happen overnight. Take it step by step Um lisa, is there anything you'd like to share as we wrap things up here? Just
Lisa Popeil: one more one more idea for That I think is useful. Um And I appreciate I always appreciate everything you say but um in this idea that there are basically three ways to approach One's involvement with music.
One is professional. And that's the one we, you know, we aspire to, um, because of, of the, you know, the glamour, the, you know, the, the love, um, you being able to work. I, one of the reasons I wanted to be successful is I wanted to work with the very top people in the music industry. And I wanted them to take my call.
So that was a big, big thing for me. I mean, I wanted to work with so and so and so and so and so and so. So that's professional. And then we've got sort of hobbyist and that's just someone who's, who loves music and who loves playing music on occasion, but there's a third category that I really want to promote this term.
And it's called avvocation, avvocation, meaning you've got your day gig and that's how you work. Live well and you have a nice car and you eat nice food, but avocation means you have a passion and you, but you have a specific amount of time in your week where you do music. You're in a band, you're rehearsing with a band.
You're doing, your band is playing at a local restaurant in such and such a town, but knowing where, you know, having the relief that your, your life doesn't, financial life doesn't depend on it, but it, it, it accepts that you have a passion for it and you can be at a super high level. So I just wanted to throw that word out there that.
Just because you're not professional doesn't mean you're a hobbyist. Uh, if you could be an avocational musician and one last comment, the more you know about recording electronics of video production, um, songwriting, music theory, playing at least one instrument somewhat with some fluidity, you know, typically it's piano or keyboard or guitar.
Um, These, these things are going to serve you because when you get an opportunity, you'll, you're less likely to embarrass yourself. Like, well, I don't know what a quarter note is, or I don't know what the key of E means. Um, I don't know what a perfect fourth is. So having basic music theory, basic music skills, it's not hard.
I teach it. And I love to teach basic music theory because I have a system in Instead of just going right to chords like they do in guitar, I start at the bottom and then sort of, so there's aren't these big scary holes in one's knowledge. So, uh, and the more you dance and acting and languages and anything you can think of that is creative, art, drawing, um, graphic design, uh, social media mastery.
All of these things are part should be part of your package of what you can provide as you, as you are out there working with professionals or just your friends, uh, doing, doing your rehearsals. You want to be the go to person because you, you love all of it. It's all connected. It's not one or the other.
The more, you know, the more valuable you are. That's what I'm trying to say.
Philippe: That's perfect. And you're a perfect example of that. It's, it's, it can be, it depends on how you view the situation. Or view all of this if you just look at it from the standpoint that that Um, i'm enjoying this process And there's all these things i'm enjoying learning They become part of you if you look at it as something that's in a way in the way of you achieving your goal It's hard work But the everything lisa just described is basically saying every asset that you bring makes you a unique artist You And you will continue to evolve and just enjoy that process Enjoy that process lisa.
It's been Fantastic. Thank you so much for your time today Um, I really appreciate it Thank you everybody for tuning in and please reach out to lisa and myself with any Questions you may have that's what we do. We really are invested in helping singers and helping you take the next steps along your journey.
Have a great day, everyone. We'll see you next time on The Voice 5. Bye bye.
